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The Oxford Comma

I’ve avoided it so far, since it’s something of a holy war, but I thought I’d stir the grammatical pot a little this week and take a stance on the Oxford comma. I worked as a copy editor at a newspaper for a year long ago, and the Associated Press style guide dictated that we omit the comma before the final item in a series (presumably because it saved a smidgin of column width on the page). An example will help clarify:

John went to the store to buy bacon, eggs and milk.

John went to the store to buy bacon, eggs, and milk.

The first sentences omits the final comma, while the second includes it. In a sentence like this, it’s hard to make a very strong case that one comma style is better than the other. But what if we want to make a more complex sentence?

John went to the store to buy bacon, eggs and milk and ran out of gas on the way home.

Omitting the comma makes me rush the sentence as I read it over, so that to my mind’s ear, “eggs and milk” comes out more like a single unit — “eggsandmilk” — as I move forward in the sentence. The final comma provides an explicit break in the rhythm of the sentence that you must supply yourself if the guidepost comma is missing. Scanning over the sentence visually before reading it, it looks as if it will be a compound sentence with one pause in the middle, and the fact that it is in fact a different sort of sentence is at odds with the expectation that a quick glance at the punctuation sets.

Leaving out the final comma in a series can also cause ambiguity, often to humorous effect. Consider these examples I’ve borrowed from the Wikipedia article on the serial comma:

  • To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.
  • Among those interviewed were his two ex-wives, Kris Kristofferson and Robert Duvall.

I’ve recently seen online several references to a funny cartoon example  (not terribly dirty, but also not entirely clean, so click with that in mind) providing an example that includes “the strippers, JFK and Stalin.” Of course, anybody reading these funny examples can understand what the author means, but I can certainly imagine cases in which real ambiguity arose from the omission of the final comma.

So, where do you stand on the Oxford comma, and what’s your rationale? I’m very much in favor of it.

105 Comments
  1. Here in Australian, the Oxford comma isn’t used and while I understand the reasoning behind using it, I don’t see people getting confused here, or at least not very often. I think it really is all about what you’re used to.

    That said, when I work with International clients, I’m very careful to use the Oxford comma since that’s what they’re used to.

    March 22, 2012
  2. I was taught in school not to use it, so it was ingrained in me for years to follow that rule. I recently started doing some legal transcription from home and they require it to be used. It took a lot of getting used to because I thought it looked so weird as opposed to what I was used to, but now it’s second nature to use it. I never read sentences the way your examples propose they could be read, but now that I use it, I understand how the mistake could be made. Great article!

    March 22, 2012
  3. I’m very much a fan of the Oxford comma, for the sake of clarity. I’ve read numerous ambiguous sentences that would have been so much clearer with that one extra comma!

    March 22, 2012
  4. If one grows up in a culture without a serial comma, then the two examples from Wikipedia are not going to cause confusion.

    The sense of each of the sentences ‘falls in’ even before one approaches the commas.

    I am English and my wife is American. So now I read with both expectations simultaneously – and it still doesn’t cause a problem.

    March 22, 2012
    • Oh David, you are so lucky! You don’t know any stupid people lol!

      Bec

      March 22, 2012
      • Bec,
        I know people who would choose to be offended in whichever order God, Ayn Rand, and my parents were put. ;-)

        March 23, 2012
  5. I’m half Irish, half welsh so im screwed either with or without it. To me, for what I was taught at school was for a pause in the sentence. As to the last comma in your suggestions above, I was taught never to use a comma immediately before “and”. As to wether or not this is grammatically correct,I’m not that smart.

    March 22, 2012
  6. I’m totally in favor of the last comma! I use it all the time, I think it’s great, and my high school english teacher told me it’s correct. ;-)

    March 22, 2012
  7. When I was younger I cared much more for what grammarians (authority!) had to say. Professionally I was also bound by style sheets.
    Now that I am in My Prime, like Miss Jean Brodie, I do what seems sensible to me (which also means clarity for others) and hang the grammarians or anyone else.
    With that in mind, YES for the Oxford comma, for rhythm, clarity, and shapeliness.
    (Notice that last example —)

    March 22, 2012
  8. “Who gives a **** about an Oxford comma.”

    March 22, 2012
  9. ;)

    March 22, 2012
  10. Like it!

    March 22, 2012
  11. I’ve been hoping you would write about this.

    I think the most salient point in your post is about “rushing the sentence” without it. I don’t think confusion is really an issue for many readers; when you have a series of three or more things and the first two are separated by a comma, it’s pretty easy to figure out what’s going on from the context.

    I always use the oxford comma, until I don’t. When you use it is sets up a regular, baseline cadence that carries readers along, all while following the rules.

    Then you can deliberately leave it out and readers will feel the change in pace. If you always use the Oxford comma, or never use the Oxford comma, you and your readers are missing out either way.

    March 22, 2012
    • Yes, for me it has a lot to do with rhythm and with setting up expectations for where the sentence is likely to go. The examples I provide are of course absurd and wouldn’t cause real confusion. And as you say, in most cases, you could probably figure out the meaning of a complex, un-serial-comma-laden sentence if you squinted hard enough. But I think it’s generally the job of the writer to avoid making the reader squint at the writing, and I think that more often than not, the serial comma does a better job of it.

      March 22, 2012
      • I agree. When I read and write, I hear it in my head, and I believe in writing it the way it sounds. Isn’t that the point of punctuation? If you would pause while speaking, by all means use the comma.

        March 22, 2012
  12. Big fan of the comma. Always will be. In fact, I hate to see it missing from a sentence. ;)

    March 22, 2012
  13. I have always respected the Oxford comma. Another big fan here.

    March 22, 2012
  14. I learned no to use it. However, as my writing assignments became more complex and detailed, I found that I needed to use it for clarity’s sake.

    There is so much loosey-goosey English being used nowdays, it’s kind of hard to take anyone to task for using the Oxford Comma.

    Also, if it helps us keep JFK and Stalin identified as political figures rather than strippers, I’m all for it.

    March 22, 2012
  15. Well, I am not English, but in Afrikaans we have the same rule, which I sometimes disobey, depending on the “feel” of the sentence. Leaving it out in your examples, certainly made me smile!

    March 22, 2012
  16. I think that leaving out the comma just looks as though you forgot the third-grade lesson (or whatever grade it was) to use commas in a series of similar items. It aids clarity for the reader, and can really make a difference in meaning for anything longer than a very simple sentence.

    The examples you used prove this point perfectly, which is why I’m definitely in favour of the Oxford comma.

    March 22, 2012
    • When I was in whatever grade, I was taught not to use it. The final comma would have been circled as incorrect. So, I tend not to use it. But, truthfully I don’t really notice one way or the other. I am a terrible editor. My brain is on auto-correct and sees whatever is supposed to be there.

      March 27, 2012
  17. I’m very much in favor of the Oxford comma. Sometimes I don’t use it, because I was one of those who were taught to leave it out, but most of the time I do employ it, for the sake of clarity.

    March 22, 2012
  18. Somewhere in my youth I must have been taught both ways, because, even now, I hesitate whenever the situation comes up…..and I’m old!

    March 22, 2012
  19. Comma placement is one of the many reasons I pay an editor. Sometimes I even add commas where none should be. So, while I am sure many editors enjoy a free ride, reading properly punctuated manuscripts, my editor actually earns his/her money. ;)

    All kidding aside, I love your articles. Especially the ones on punctuation, because mine sucks. I am always eager to polish up my literary act. Please, keep the articles coming.

    March 22, 2012
    • Any other particular tricky issues you’d like to see me write about?

      March 22, 2012
      • Colon and semicolon usage? Use your discretion, I could probably use the lesson on whatever topic you choose. If not me, then surely someone will learn something. Thanks.

        March 22, 2012
      • Oh my gosh, YES PLEASE! I love semicolons a bit too much for my own good, and although I feel I use them correctly, the english monster within me gets a little grumbly and makes me think I’m not. I’d absolutely LOVE to really nail down the correct usage of it!

        March 22, 2012
      • To both the previous repliers, I would say as little as possible.

        April 2, 2012
  20. I don’t like the last comma, at least as I’m writing. What other people do in this scenario don’t bother. Your second example, however, is a case where I would use it. And if I’m really in doubt, I have no problem admitting, I’ll just change the sentence around.

    It’s funny you approach the subject of grammar, because I had to look up some old rules today that I had forgotten as well. How to handle the question mark, when you’re really not asking a question, as in…What should you do with the question mark, you may ask. It’s a real gray area, and it sounds like the rules of grammar are loosening up, as we are now writing in a more conversational style. In the end, when I’m in question, I go with how we talk. I break the rules all the time with sentence fragments and the like. I’m an advocate for speaking as we talk and inserting punctuation where I want the reader to pause. Conversational style is fine, but text lingo is not.

    The thing that really gets me is a misspelling. I can handle a typo, but not a misspelled word from someone who is trying to be a writer.

    March 22, 2012
  21. I’m pro the use of the Oxford comma. However, if my parents were Ayn Rand and God, maybe I wouldn’t be so quick to include it! ;-)

    March 22, 2012
  22. So far in the writing journey, and of course the editing process, I find the comma is my favourite common punctuation. For someone who does not have an editing background, I am with you on this Daryl. The comma creates a pause. It is evident when I am reading in class or at home to my eight year old child, that the comma is necessary to show the breaks in a sentence. No eggsandmilk at our house please!

    March 22, 2012
  23. I am definitely pro Oxford comma, although as the examples show, the sentence is often much funnier without it.

    If you want something to tackle next Darryl, how about a treatise on the correct use and misuse of “moot” such as in “it’s a moot point.”

    As always, I look forward to your next column.

    March 22, 2012
  24. If the meaning is conveyed, its okay.

    March 22, 2012
  25. Good on you! I also find myself rushing as I read. When I was in grade school, a thousand years ago, we couldn’t use a comma without a really good reason. Much like we were forbidden to use the first person when writing essays in university.

    I say clarity and enjoyable reading first. I loved this piece. Thank you, thank you, and thank you!

    Bec

    March 22, 2012
  26. Whatever means we can find to make our writing more clear should be our goal.
    Anyone who disagrees will be eaten, shot, and left. ;-)

    March 22, 2012
  27. Definitely the Oxford comma! It’s all I’ve used!

    March 22, 2012
  28. I couldn’t live with out the Oxford comma! It adds meter and clarity.

    March 22, 2012
  29. S.L. Funk #

    I find it easier with the Oxford comma; without it the sentence is left to be interpreted incorrectly. Though the sentence may seemed too spliced and segregated, it adds clarity and puts the writer in control.

    “John went to the store to buy bacon, eggs, and milk, and ran out of gas on the way home.”

    March 22, 2012
  30. I agree Daryl. I use the Oxford comma religiously. But I do occasionally, albeit rarely, leave it out. My constant goal is to clearly convey intended meaning, and if that requires bending some established rule, then that is what I do.

    There is more to using correct punctuation than employing ironclad rules. Punctuation visually represents the natural rise and fall of our speaking voice – the flow, or rhythm, as you said. It represents our natural stops and starts, the pause for emphasis, the unspoken “I will now give you a list of items as promised by this colon”. It also yields up the otherwise hidden nuances of implied meaning; meaning that words alone cannot capture. A well-placed semi-colon or comma can eliminate at least two or three words, allowing the reader to experience the rich completeness of the unsaid. Punctuation is every bit as much a language as the words we write, and successfully using the two together… well, that type of writing is just pure pleasure to read.

    My personal rule: Know the rules – intimately – then adapt them to personal style, format, content, while developing the wisdom to know when and why it is necessary to break a certain rule. Sometimes, breaking a rule adds as much clarity as what maintaining the rule does otherwise. That’s where the art of writing absolutely depends on experience and wisdom. Without which, the written word becomes mechanical drudgery for the author, and exhausting work for the reader. Correctly adhering to this rule is the difference between success and failure; a well-read book, or one that sits on the shelf collecting dust.

    Thanks for your excellent posts. Keep it up!

    March 22, 2012
  31. As a British English writer, it’s an affront to my eyes! It’s a sign of poor organisation if you can’t write clearly without it and if you mean, as per the example, that your parents are Ayn Rand and God, or that JFK and Stalin were strippers, a colon would introduce the explanation much more effectively.

    e..g To my parents: Ayn Rand and God.

    Therefore, to me, an Oxford comma is redundant. A comma is a very weak mark anyway and much over-used where a colon or semi-colon should be used instead, or to support lazy writing. The Oxford comma may well give you strippers, JFK and Stalin, but if it gave you JFK, Stalin and strippers, then there’d be no confusion at all.

    I can understand why the organisation of the Ayn Rand sentence is the way it is: there is something to do with a build-up to God, but surely Ayn Rand is less important than their parents?

    In which case, To Ayn Rand, my parents and God, would be more sensible and clear. Although it doesn’t give you a pause before God, which you might want if you were a reverent person. Thus, To Ayn Rand, to my parents, and, above all, to God, would be better for the build up – the comma here isn’t an Oxford comma after and, but a comma to indicate an embedded addition.

    In all honesty, there are worse affronts – the awful comma splice, the offensive mis-use of ‘less’ and ‘fewer’ and people who haven’t yet masted ‘your/you’re’ – or worst of all – those ‘writers’ who put it’s when they mean its. Argh! They make my eyes bleed!

    March 22, 2012
    • Right there with you, ladyjustine.

      March 23, 2012
    • Hmm, but the colon example you provide actually provides the same meaning as the botched comma, suggesting that your parents are Ayn Rand and God. I’m glad you point out that word order can make a difference in examples like that, though (while also acknowledging what many would miss — that building from least to greatest — at least in some fashion — may also be of rhetorical value).

      Colons and semicolons shouldn’t be over-used, though they can be very effective punctuation marks. Given feedback on this post, I think I may cue up a semi-colon post soon.

      March 23, 2012
      • That’s what I wanted the colon to do. If I meant Ayn Rand and God were my parents, that’s how I’d punctuate it.

        March 23, 2012
      • Ah, I misunderstood. But then there’s the case of a complex sentence that includes the list but then moves on to another thought. The colon disrupts that possibility. I suppose you can still write around such a case, but I occasionally like to use the long, loping sentence and hate to let a little comma restrict me.

        March 23, 2012
    • I also agree that there are much worse affronts than the omission of the final comma. :)

      March 23, 2012
    • I love this! It is so apparent how still English we Americans were back in the 50′s. Your explanation here, is word for word, bang on, the same as my grandmother’s and teacher’s explanation was then. Thanks for this.

      First person anyone?

      Bec

      March 24, 2012
  32. I too am in favor of it. Like you, I feel that “eggs and bacon” reads more like “eggsandbacon” and I don’t like that.

    March 22, 2012
  33. English is not my mother tongue. I learned English as third language. So for me this was a very informative post. I think I would use this comma. :)

    March 23, 2012
  34. princess1960 #

    ME TOO

    March 23, 2012
  35. Very Interesting I must say. But as I am a believer of writing how one see’s it or speaks, this comma can change the way a phrase is meant to read. As far as changing a plot even. Use it or not, surely that depends on the writer and the subject matter. Be a free spirit…:)

    March 23, 2012
  36. Joy #

    I rarely, if ever, use a comma before the word and. I probably misused the commas in the last sentence. I was an English major and yet that stinkin’ comma placement gets me every time!
    Thanks for the post ;)

    March 23, 2012
  37. I remember my earliest teachers explicitly asking us to “use commas to separate items in a list, except when and is used”. I’ve stuck to that rule for most of my life. Recently, I’ve begun to use it even when and is used as a separator.

    March 23, 2012
    • I suspect what your teachers meant was more like the following:

      I like cabbage and lettuce and spinach.

      I like cabbage, lettuce, and spinach.

      Generally, you wouldn’t want commas in the first example (using serial ands in this way is called “polysyndeton,” by the way), but at least in U.S. schools, I think the second example is what’s usually taught.

      Of course, I wasn’t there to hear what your teachers actually said. :)

      March 23, 2012
      • :)

        No, sorry, I should’ve been more specific. We were taught not to use a comma when and is used between the last two items in a list, i.e., the oxford comma. I’m beginning to think my primary school teachers were Anti-oxford comma! :P

        And I’m pretty sure I like cabbage, lettuce and spinach is what was (probably still is) taught throughout my country (India). That could be a colonial hangover, not sure though.

        March 23, 2012
  38. Speaking of commas —
    It’s very heartening to listen to people arguing passionately about matters of grammar and punctuation.
    But it strikes me as odd how many people — including those defending the comma — leave it out at a place dictated not only by rules of grammar, but by the rhythmic rules of speaking, as in Hello, Daryl! I agree, Daryl. Glad you suggested this, Daryl.
    One’s voice naturally dips there, it adds a gratifying emphasis to the name, and, as I originally said, it is the grammatical rule.

    March 23, 2012
  39. Kamuflirt #

    Personally, I prefer the Camebridge comma,

    March 23, 2012
  40. I’d also like to add that in a list, the comma replaces the and…

    To my parents AND Ayn Rand AND God.

    To add the Oxford comma, to a British English writer, makes this say:

    To my parents AND Ayn Rand AND AND God

    which is silly.

    It’s like if people who have used a colon to replace a because then stick the because in again afterwards.

    e.g. I detest the Oxford comma: it lends itself to lazy writing and poor sentence organisation

    would be:

    I detest the Oxford comma: because it lends itself… etc.

    The ‘because’ is redundant. Or the colon is redundant. Having both is like writing ‘because because’ (and not following it with ‘because of the wonderful things he does!’)

    I kind of agree with it being used for a dramatic pause. That’s okay. But to put it in all lists, to me, is like writing ‘and and’ or using a colon with because or a semi-colon with whereas. Pointless.

    More reasons I’m anti-Oxford-comma!

    March 23, 2012
    • Those are interesting examples. I don’t implicitly substitute the word “and” for the comma but can see how it’d be irritating if you do sort of hear the “and” in your head when reading a list.

      March 23, 2012
      • I think it’s one of those lovely differences that marks the trans-Atlantic divide, to be honest. And I like that writers discuss it. I like that you spell grey gray and you probably think I’m very quaint for writing colour and organisation. Great post, by the way. I feel somewhat in a minority by the amount of Pro-O-C people, though!

        March 23, 2012
      • I was glad to finally have someone stand up firmly against the Oxford comma! I mean, if you bring up a holy war topic and nobody from the other camp shows up, it’s a little disappointing!

        March 23, 2012
  41. Cheryl #

    Reblogged this on Cheryl Andrews.

    March 23, 2012
  42. I love the Oxford comma. A pair of my friends who are professional copy editors look over my blog posts here and there. As a result, I’m getting emails at least once a week telling me not to use the Oxford comma. That said, I feel dirty not using it.

    March 23, 2012
  43. I’m with you on the Oxford comma. My grammar school teachers were believers and I grew up thinking that was the only correct way.
    In college we were supposed to follow the AP style (I paid no attention, thinking that I knew my grammar…). One of my professors marked up EVERY single one of my Oxford commas as wrong in one of my papers. I went to talk to him and said, “Those commas are not wrong!” and he said, “According to AP style, which is what you were supposed to be using, they are.”
    I learned a tough lesson that day. I had to “unlearn” that comma. I still have trouble with it; I have to actually stop and think about whether it should be there or not. As you have so correctly shown, sometimes the comma needs to be there.
    I love your examples of why the AP comma style doesn’t always work…great post!

    March 23, 2012
  44. BairbreSine (Barbara Gavin-Lewellyn) #

    I have mixed feelings about the Oxford comma. Mostly, I tend to use it for clarity but there are a lot of times when I think it just isn’t necessary and looks weird so I don’t. I was told way back when (by a Professor of English) that I could choose either way and be correct but I had to be consistent in a piece. Oh yeah? Why? Well, when I was writing papers for HIS class, if I wasn’t my grade got dinged. Otherwise, it depends on what I’m trying to convey and why and because I am weird about things like this, whether or not I like the way it looks in any particular sentence on the page.

    March 23, 2012
  45. I am for the oxford comma as it is the only logical way to construct your list – why should the next to last item be singled out? It is list order discrimination.

    March 23, 2012
  46. I join with those who stand for the Oxford comma, and use it serially (pun intended.) As one trained in philosophy, I am all about clarity of thought. Apparently I am the odd-American out, as I am certain I was trained to use the Oxford comma by my first English teacher. Then again, she was Canadian…

    March 23, 2012
  47. I am totally in favor of the Oxford comma. However, I appreciated Lady Justine’s thoughts on it. I never quite understood why people didn’t use it. Her example stating that the comma is a substitute for “and” made sense to me.

    Interesting discussion!

    March 23, 2012
  48. A very amusing article. I like the idea of using it only when it clarifies the relationships. It makes it more fun to challenge one’s self with the possibility of making a faux pas every now and then.

    March 23, 2012
  49. Must keep it. I hate the elimination of commas with this example, as well as with introductory elements. If it causes a reader to stumble and have to re-read, it is not worth saving a little space and ink. For those examples where it does not seem to matter, my plea is for consistency! Grammar is hard enough to teach kids without making exceptions. Whew! Done.

    March 23, 2012
  50. Here’s the thing: the Oxford Comma is useful. Why can’t the rule simply be “Use it when you need it,” pretty much like any other punctuation mark? If the only point of eliminating it stems from reducing costs by eliminating the Oxford comma, then it’s ridiculous to eliminate it all together.

    March 23, 2012
  51. I always use the Oxford comma – I think it makes things much clearer. Love the cartoon example : )

    March 23, 2012
  52. Great post and something I notice every time I stumble across a series in a book or newspaper. I tend to go with the Chicago Manual of Style which always puts that final comma in. The Washington Post on the other hand, one of my favorite papers, always leaves it out. To me, it just makes the sentence roll of my tongue better except in cases like the example you posed where compound actions go together. Putting commas in there breaks up the meaning.

    March 24, 2012
  53. we were taught not to use it, and to be honest it drives me a little mad seeing various types of using the comma before or not the “and”. i’d say, let’s get rid of it alltogether.

    March 24, 2012
  54. I was taught in school not to use it, but I’m a rebel at heart. I love the Oxford comma!

    March 24, 2012
  55. Hey, anytime you make the reader work unnecessarily, you risk jerking the reader out of your piece, right? I am with you, I like the Oxford comma. It’s like doing away with yellow lights at intersections, and YIELD signs too. Isn’t that what punctuations are, signs to alert the reader on how to proceed, slow down or stop altogether?

    March 24, 2012
  56. I particularly liked the example “To my parents, Ayn Rand and God”; I personally omit the final comma ; it’s for me an indication the list is complete and rounded!!

    March 25, 2012
  57. Forget the commas . . . and let us discuss the ellipses and serial semi-colons. Is it ellipsis or elipisises.Anyway comma I do what Word commands me to do and it seems right.

    March 25, 2012
    • Ellipsis is singular, ellipses plural. I think the use of these is generally not a good idea, though there are of course always exceptions…

      March 25, 2012
      • Whew. Now I can rest. I prefer ellipisesses’s. This is the Internet so I can invent new punk-tua-tion marks. And I can misuse hyphens. Love your blog.

        March 25, 2012
  58. In favor.

    And @thecrankywriter, I don’t think hyphens can be misused. Perhaps vaguely inappropriately used? Or even overused? (Not in my world!)

    March 25, 2012
  59. I am pretty sure that I learned not to use it but I must say that after reading this I quite like it.

    March 25, 2012
  60. I’ve always used the Oxford comma, so the fact that the AP advises against it bothers me. I’m graduating with my degree in print journalism and English in May, and I just can’t break my habit of using it. AP style be damned, long live the Oxford comma!

    March 25, 2012
  61. Thank you for the post. I review executive correspondence and have also taught basic grammar for several years. This is what I tell students and others I mentor on the use of commas: don’t over-use them. The need to use the four different types of sentences or the comma on the last item in a series can be a reality. Best is to keep things simple and clear…even better, stick to short sentences. Always motivated, Jose LugoSantiago

    March 26, 2012
  62. E.B. White advised me at an early age–via Strunk and White–to use the serial comma. I love your examples.
    Patty

    March 26, 2012
  63. I dearly love the Oxford comma…now. Thanks to a dear grammarian that introduced us.
    Here’s a piece by Linda Holmes at NPR. hey, if it’s good enough for Oxford…
    Toni

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2011/06/30/137525211/going-going-and-gone-no-the-oxford-comma-is-safe-for-now

    March 26, 2012
  64. I think grammar is very necessary to be careful with. It’s the global root of a language. Let’s take care of it.

    IVÁN
    Terapeuta de Reiki
    http://www.reikiterapiavigo.wordpress.com

    March 27, 2012
  65. Instead of having a strict rule as to whether the final comma should be used or not, it would be convenient to look at the context in which it is being used.

    If omitting the comma is saving column width without distorting the message or creating considerable ambiguity, there’s no harm in keeping it out.

    If, however, its omission is killing the message like in “To my parents, Ayn Rand and God”, or in the cartoon (which was hilarious), then it should be used.

    I personally have no rule when it comes to the use of the Oxford Comma. I always write without it and when I’m reviewing my work, and something doesn’t sound right, I just chip it in.

    March 27, 2012
  66. To me, the point of *not* having a comma before the final element of a list is that it is a list – the ‘and’ binds the final element of the list to the rest of it, without the conceptual ‘pause’ implied by the comma. In speaking, I wouldn’t pause before the ‘and’, so in writing I wouldn’t use a comma.

    However, there is no general reason not to use a comma before ‘and’ where it’s not part of a list; to take your example:

    “John went to the store to buy bacon, eggs and milk and ran out of gas on the way home”.

    I’d make it

    “John went to the store to buy bacon, eggs and milk, and ran out of gas on the way home”.

    There’s no conceptual link between the buying of groceries and the running out of fuel, so a comma is appropriate – these are two separate activities. Furthermore, one would naturally pause in speaking that sentence, so again the comma use follows speech.

    As with any grammatical rule, though, one has to remember that the purpose of language is to communicate, and the purpose of grammar is to aid communication. If a comma helps people understand, use it; but to me, the use of a comma before the ‘and’ in completing a list creates a conceptual division which actually breaks up the sense of the list, and therefore generally inhibits understanding.

    March 27, 2012
    • Ah, but I do pause before that “and” (else it’d sound like “bacon, eggsandmilk”). In fact, I think the tendency in natural English speech is probably to pause just a hair longer before that final item in a list as a cue that it’ll be the last item (one of those things we do without thinking about it, the same way we raise our pitch when asking a question).

      Your addition of a comma between the clauses in the sample sentence actually sort of breaks another comma rule, which is that if you have a compound sentence whose subjects are the same (that is, the same person is doing both parts of the sentence), then you don’t separate the clauses with a comma. By contrast, if your compound sentence has two subjects, you do use the comma. It’s usually ok to insert a comma if it makes the sentence clearer (especially for longer or comlex sentences), but I really don’t like the use of a comma in this situation. That said, adding the Oxford comma doesn’t necessarily fix the sentence either (the two ands so close together still present a problem), so in real life, I’d probably rephrase.

      March 27, 2012
  67. I always use the comma, it seems like it helps to make the sentence more clear

    March 29, 2012
  68. “two ex-wives, Kris Kristofferson and Robert Duvall” — liked!

    April 1, 2012
  69. I learned not to include the final comma at school, and on joining a newspaper I was promptly told to include it.

    Only discovered it was called an Oxford comma a couple of years ago and had no idea it was controversial. Thought it was part of life.

    Who gets wound up about a comma? :D

    Jose had some great advice, don’t overuse, keep everything short and simple and stick to short sentences.

    Our minimum for an intro was 12 words, but no more than 20. That may give you a post. Intros? Or perhaps I will write it first on my blog :D

    April 2, 2012
  70. A fabulous post :) . The comic explanation can’t be clearer :) I wish I thought about it while I was teaching English some years ago.

    April 3, 2012
  71. I’ve been an English teacher for 44 years. I’ve also been a novelist, a newspaper reporter, a columnist, an editor, and a book publisher for many years in the past two decades. My experience has taught me that the Oxford comma gives the reader a definite advantage in the vast majority of texts. I always use it and require all my students to do the same. Two newspapers I worked for used an editorial style that required it to be eliminated, but I always sent my stories in with the Oxford comma in place. My position was that I wrote the article in the format that I considered the only “correct” and acceptable style. If they wanted to use a style that was less perfect, they were welcome to change it. They did.

    April 5, 2012
  72. In total agreement with, and support of ‘Oxford comma’. I, however, never knew that there was a term for it.
    My middle school English teacher, yelled every time she noticed that mistake in the home-works. :D
    Despite that, I am still not so sure that I never made the mistake again.

    April 7, 2012
  73. Reblogged this on Bipolarly, Yours truly.

    April 7, 2012
  74. Perhaps reading it aloud would help clarify the necessity of the comma. This lets you not only see but hear as the reader does and that is what answers the “to use or not to use” question for me. Personally, I don’t use it unless it does not read as I intended. Loved the analogy of the rushed words.

    April 8, 2012
  75. Reblogged this on All Around Ana.

    April 21, 2012

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

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  3. The Power of Commas « Doree Weller's Blog
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